ATTENDANCE and COMMENTS PLEASE: Special City Council Meeting on Pensions, January 12, 2012

[Patricia M. McBride]

There is going to be a "special city council" meeting on January 12th which is this coming Thursday, beginning at 9:30 AM and going until all comments are made and the council has made some sort of decision on the police and fire pensions.  Mayor Brown, thankfully, rejected a special magistrate's suggested settlement which was actually worse for the city than what was already agreed upon by the mayor and the unions.  That, however, is not the reason I am posting today.

The time for action and to speak out is NOW.  During the discussion to consider what was to be done, consideration was given to finding a way to limit YOUR input via comments at the meeting, and we must all go and speak out on this issue.  This is not the first time consideration has been given to limiting public input on an issue, and for those who have been active downtown, then, you know that public comments are rarely allowed at committee meetings (save councilman Gulliford who always allows comments at his committee meetings).  Since this new council was seated, the public has had their input limited and in some cases Emails and phone calls have been the only accepted form that could be used.   An attempt to avoid allowing public comments was made and although I will not show names, please read excerpts from some Emails that were an attempt to find away to disallow your voice from being heard.

 

One of our members wrote the following in an Email:

 

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-12-30/story/city-council-de...

Will the public be allowed to participate in this ?

 

Here is a copy of the query sent by a councilmen in response to the question from several people about public comments being allowed:

I have received several inquiries from constituents about whether there will be an opportunity for the public to address the City Council during the impasse resolution meeting scheduled for January 12, 2012. Will there be a public hearing or any such opportunity?

 

This is the reponse received about public comment being allowed (if it doesn't make your blood boil, it should............we, afterall, pay the bills and will be left holding the bag for whatever they do)  A copy of this was sent to the union spokesman and would assume the mayor also, but apparently we are the great unwashed and are not kept in the loop:

There is no state law requirement for public comment (just that there be a “public hearing” where the public is invited) and public comment has not been the policy in Jacksonville or around the state. A two or three hour hearing would be converted into a 2 or 3 day hearing if public comment were allowed. Neither the FOP or the City Administration want it and it is my belief, subject to a discussion I will have with the Council President, that the Council President will not agenda public comment. Of course, decisions of the Council President are subject to appeal.

Please direct all impasse questions to my attention. Thank you.

And last of all, the final comment by the person who asked the question about comments:

what shall we do? Go to show our interest and get to say nothing or not go and have no chance of effecting?

This hearing is about the police union contract with the city. They are not going to talk about the pension plan which is the biggest problem the city has – the unfunded liability is over $ 2,000,000,000 – yes more than TWO-BILLION DOLLARS. Possibly as high as TWO-BILLION FOUR HUNDRED MILLION.

 

IF YOU CAN GO, PLEASE GO TO THIS MEETING.  IF NOTHING ELSE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND DECIDE IF YOU WOULD CONSIDER VOTING FOR ANY OF THESE PEOPLE AGAIN FOR ANY OFFICE, SINCE THEY APPARENTLY, DO NOT CONSIDER YOUR INPUT NECESSARY OR RELEVANT TO THE PROCESS. 

 

 

[Patricia M. McBride]

I agree CJ, participation is important, and I am grateful to any and all who will come on Thursday if they can.  So many people work, so 9:30 AM on a Thursday is difficult if someone has a job.  We do understand that but have high hopes those who can come, will come!

[CJ]

Certainly it is never not my intention to discourage but absolutely to encourage. I am known among Council for pushing the issue with Council for public participation but I am a small measure when compared to Tony

I aspire to be like Tony.

But when I read this....."Attending is a feel good exercise but has absolutely no part in the outcome of whatever is being discussed." Got my ire!

Its feelings like this is why only a dozen of us are routinely left alone to fight for the masses and dont win as much as we could. We need more faces in the crowd.

If we do not show up in masses to fight for the cause it could very well turn out we will be in Chambers fighting to prevent another tax hike. It is a fact if Pensions are not decreased to more manageable levels WE WILL have tax increase in the next budget whether the Mayor says he wants one or not.

Please come

[Patricia M. McBride]

Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions Tony.  And you are 100% correct people need to be there, and they need to write and call as well.  Your opinion is important folks, and you should not be discouraged by CJ's comments at all.   Tony has done this for years, and he knows that showing up at council meetings and committee meetings is extremely important even if you have not been hanging around down there every day of the week or going to every council committee and meeting.  The pensions are unsustainable, and unless the problem is addressed, our city is going to go bankrupt (and very soon).   Going and being there lets them know that you are paying attention even when you aren't there all the time.  Showing up in mass (as the police and firemen will for this) gives support to our city council and encourages them to do the right thing, because we are paying attention and know what is going on.  CJ is a wonderful young woman, really has (as she has pointed out) made an impact through her actions, and does spend a great deal of her time on all things city, and she is right, you can move mountains, because she has several times.

[CJ]

One more thing.. you all remember that $640,000 peyton wanted to spend on "artwork" for the new courthouse?

3 times legislation was introduced for that wasteful spending and three times I took the law that said they couldn't.

Council certainly could have passed it if they had wanted, they have that power, they didnt though.

Guess who won..... :)

Just imagine what could happen if the Chambers were full

[CJ]

Robert I was there the night of the Tax hike when hundreds of people came to voice their disapproval i also know by that time, that night the Budget Bill had been on the Agenda many weeks. The City Budget is not surprise to any one as it is due every year prior to October first. There are more than enough opportunity's for residents to voice their opinions prior to the night of the vote. If people wait til the night of the vote they have waited too long.

Also prior to the Budget even hitting the Agenda the City holds multiple community meetings BEGGING people to get involved. Do they always take what is recommended? No. Do they somethimes? Yes That is why this time around the equestrian center is closing if private funding is not found for one example.

I know one person can make a difference and am proof of it and can only imagine what a room full can do.

I can assure you, I and others have been working this pension issue for quite some time and some for even years. Ultimately we did not wait til the day of the vote to make our wishes known. We wrote and we followed up during public comment periods, we attended the committee meetings and we wrote some more. If there is still failure to abide by the peoples wishes I run off 21 copies of the law(s) that provides them the power to reign over any entity in this City.

We may not get everything we want but the Police pension will take a hit by the  likes they have never seen before. Mostly one we can more afford. I have seen the police show up in numbers to chambers that intimidate just by the numbers that do show up.

It would be in the publics best interest to do the same.

[Tony Bates]

The following is from Council Rules.  We know council can waive rules on legislation and probably this also. but what are your conclusion on the Rules as written?    Particulary (1) iv.

RULE 4.1204 RESOLUTION OF IMPASSES

(a) Submission of Recommendations. Whenever there is an impasse under Section 447.403, Florida Statutes and the Council is required to resolve the impasse under Section 447.403(4), Florida Statutes, the Mayor or chief executive officer of the independent agency, as the case may be, shall submit his/her recommendations to the Council in writing, together with the findings of fact and recommended decision of the special master. The bargaining unit shall also submit its recommendations in writing to the Council, before the public hearing on the impasse. The public hearing shall be held by the Council sitting as Committee of the Whole, unless the matter is referred to a standing committee as provided in subrule

(b); and the additional procedures prescribed in subrule (b) shall apply to the Council when it is sitting as a Committee of the Whole hereunder.

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(b) Reference of Impasse Hearing to Committee. The President may, by letter, refer the public hearing on the impasse to an appropriate standing committee, in lieu of a public hearing by the Council. If the reference is so made, the Committee shall forthwith schedule and conduct a public hearing on the impasse. The procedures set out in Rule 3.602 shall govern the conduct of the public hearing, but the following additional procedures shall also apply during the public hearing and committee debate on the issues involved in the impasse:

     (1) The order of business at the public hearing, after the committee is called to order, shall be as follows:

         i. Reading of the findings of fact and recommended decision of the special master;

        ii. Explanation of the position of the public employer with respect to the recommended decision of the special master;

       iii. Explanation of the position of the employee organization with respect to the recommended decision of the special master;

       iv. Comments from the members of the general public who are present and wish to address the committee on the issues involved in the impasse proceeding before the special master;

        v. Consideration of the information presented at the public hearing;

       vi. Decision by the Committee as to its recommendations to the Council for resolution of the impasse;

       vii. Adjournment of public hearing.

[Tom Wing]

Maybe the time is now to become more vocal outside of the City Coouncil Chambers.  Nice guys always finish last.   

[robert c tipton]

It became clear years ago that at ALL council -city commission or school board meetings  that those in power do not give two hoots in hell what you think. Attending is a feel good exercise but has absolutely no part in the outcome of whatever is being discussed.Think back to the Sept 2010  budget meeting--hundreds of us packed city hall inside and out--the council sat there -no give and take -- no intrest in what we had to say-then passed the bulk of what they intended to pass and then went out to celebtate -- another joke on us poor saps who think our precence had any value.I will  however be at the meeting and will protest the only way I know how--I will stand up in the front row --say nothing and refuse to sit down or leave if asked. I will be doing this as a private citizen --not in the name of the Tea Party which I hold in the highest esteem--you all are the group I admire most and trust to always act in the best interest of America- therefore I would never do anything to bring dishonor  to you all.There seems to me to be only two alternatives to stop the criminal activity of our government --one is to take a legal approach  thru the courts --to bring government to a halt or thru civil disobediance which was called for by our Founding Fathers as the last alternative to a lawless rouge government which we now have at every level  local-stateand  federal

[Tony Bates]

PLEASE ATTEND THIS MEETING

I had a personal phone conversation with a Councilmember whose comments were similar about Public Comment at the Public Hearing concerning Impasse. I suggested he talk with General Counsel for clarification of Council Rules.  

- According to the Council Rules - I read them to state that the Public Hearing and Public's Comments are "REQUIRED" to all take place prior to the Council deliberations on Impasse. I will send follow up information on this later tonight.

THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS -E- IS TO EMPHASIZE THE URGENCY OF HAVING BODIES AT THE MEETING.

There will be a "house full" of those that want things to remain the same - a situation that is economically unsustainable unless you want your taxes to go up hundreds of dollars a year. Hope those in this ‘group’ that have information will take time to add specific numbers to this discussion. I'll try and contribute more later

Please also flood your Councilmembers with telephone calls and -e-mails and - as the Mayor has done.- ask them to vote NO to the Unions request.  Send them back to the table.    Good recommendations were made by the citizens that made up the new Mayors Transition Team to resolve the pension crises this and so many other government bodies face throughout the nation.

I do not want to make this -e - too long. I'll add this and conclude for now - Do not expect contract negotiations to take place by Council at this meeting. Council is limited when it comes to Union contract negotiations. More later on this also, unless someone wants to contribute that information for me. Not sure how much info you need or want.

[Michael Jackson]

Maybe we should pick one out to recall. I'm personally upset with "Emergency agenda" items that do not adhere to their own by-laws. And adding items such as the review and acceptance of the Mayor's administrative changes by last minute additions to the agenda. Our current President also wanted the previously elected council to vote on the budget.